You are both right to be upset and concerned and these are good questions for Brian Lamb. Many children with ASD are academically average or above average: this is part of the complex nature of autism. However, as you both know, other skills are often severely lacking and schools have a duty to teach social as well as academic skills. If these problems aren't addressed at an early age, they can lead to social isolation, mental health difficulites etc in adulthood.Many adults with ASD cannot get jobs because of their poor social skills even though they might be highly qualified.
I would be interested to hear Brian Lamb's response to these questions.
By the way, you are within your rights to begin the statementing process yourselves. I think there is some guidance about this elsewhere on the forum.
Asteroids Sara - Community Champion
Posted by Elena Goodrum
on 10th March 2010
at 12:38
Hello, Maria & Sarah - welcome to the group! Glad you shared your thoughts, and don't worry - we love rambling, and we love to rant about things! : )
Posted by Josie Barnshaw
on 10th March 2010
at 12:52
Hi John
Welcome to the group. Hope we hear more from you in the other discussions.
Josie - CommunityChampion
Posted by Josie Barnshaw
on 10th March 2010
at 12:53
Oops sorry, missed Maria and Sarah's arrival. Welcome to the group girls. Look forward to hearing more from you both.
Josie - CommunityChampion
Posted by bumblebee
on 10th March 2010
at 13:48
I have a question....
At my daughter's SEN tribunal, the Tribunal judge questioned if Cognitive Behaviour Therapy is something that education should be asked to provide in school.
My daughter has Asperger Syndrome but does not need direct speech therapy or occupational therapy, however my other 2 children (who also have ASD) do and have these provisions written into their statements, they are both provided at school and they are also both health provisions.
What my daughter needs is Cognitive Behavioural Therapy in order to access parts of school life and this is her greatest area of need (social emotional). She needs this to be situation specific in order for it to be effective but the judge seems happy for anyone to provide this 'type' of approach in school......
Are there any strict regulations and rules on health provisions being delivered in school? Can we expect all of our children's SEN needs to be delivered within the school?
Claire - Community Champion
Posted by damo73
on 10th March 2010
at 17:03
Hello all,
I find the posts by Sarah and Maria as quite indicative of how far we are yet to travel in raising awareness and gaining support for children placed in mainstream schools. I had a similar problem as an adult seeking an assessment - the first GP I visited said 'you obviously have an IQ above 70 and wouldn't qualify as having a learning disability' etc.! Seeing as last time my IQ was measured, I got a score of 160 + I got 4 C's, 3 D's and an F at GCSE many years ago - shows that I was academically very able in some areas, yet struggled in many other ways with academic work and how it was presented to me/the school environment. I never showed my working out in Maths and was assumed to be cheating! I didn't write more than a paragraph until I was 17 (and in college), when now I struggle to meet word limits for having too much to say. Too many 'high-functioning' children are assumed to be 'doing well', when actually they are doing far worse then they could be doing + thus not meeting their potential academically (not to mention the social problems mentioned by Sara).
Claire - I've never been a fan of Cognitive and Behavioural psychology based upon a scientific model more akin to studying inanimate objects and processes (although I'm currently studying a module in it with the OU!). I think that discursive and phenomenological psychology has much to offer, yet is never really mentioned in the same breath as autism (something my own research will be looking into). Having said that, in some cases it can be helpful, if delivered by a skilled practitioner. I would say that it is most useful in helping co-morbidity when things have already failed a child. I think that many 'challenging behaviours' are the consequence of professionals already doing a poor job of supporting ASC children / difficulties with a societal/cultural expectations and so on. The suggestion that this 'type' of approach can be delivered by untrained practitioners is scary in the extreme and shows that the judge doesn't know the difference between his nose and his...
On a more positive note, I have been asked by my PhD supervisor to review a book for a journal (to be published!) + will be presenting at a conference in a few months time. It seems my work is being very well appreciated at the Uni of Birmingham + I am receiving very positive feedback + making some excellent contacts. Compare this to how school teachers viewed me:
"Damian has not put much effort into his work this term and despite encouragement, cajolling, threats and eventual punishment, nothing has seemed to get through to him. He seems to lack drive or any will to improve. A drastic revision of his working habits needs to occur quickly."
"It does not appear that he is very bright and therefore lack of effort compounds the problem."
Jenny Phillips
Training and Events Coordinator
TreeHouse
Posted by damo73
on 11th March 2010
at 11:22
Hello all,
I understand the position that Brian Lamb is in, yet I felt somewhat underwhelmed by the experience. There seems to be little room for the voice of people with SEN being sought, and the transfer of FE provision to LA's seems very 'up in the air' at the moment. I am glad that SKILL are looking into it, yet they seem to be a charity with little 'teeth' to make a difference. The DSA can be helpful, yet not in the type of provision + structure of FE insitutions (lack of a continuum of provision).
My main remaining questions to be answered are:
How will the continuum of provision between mainstream and specialist schooling (and FE) be improved?
How will ITT + CPD training be improved + involve the voices of parents and people with SEN?
I hope I do get a private response etc...
Damian
Posted by bumblebee
on 11th March 2010
at 16:39
Hi All,
Thanks for asking my questions in my absence and I'm glad to see there were some other pretty tough ones posed to Mr Lamb! Fingers crossed that he is fed up of hearing the same complaints again and again!!!! There may be a few points that he could see as vote winners so hopefully that may be a good enough reason to implement them or at least keep pushing for them.....
![SiftGroups.com [opens in a new window]](sites/www.talkaboutautism.org.uk/themes/zen/treehouse/images/siftGroupsLogo.gif)
Posted by
asteroids
on 10th March 2010
at 12:29
Hi Sarah and Maria,
You are both right to be upset and concerned and these are good questions for Brian Lamb. Many children with ASD are academically average or above average: this is part of the complex nature of autism. However, as you both know, other skills are often severely lacking and schools have a duty to teach social as well as academic skills. If these problems aren't addressed at an early age, they can lead to social isolation, mental health difficulites etc in adulthood.Many adults with ASD cannot get jobs because of their poor social skills even though they might be highly qualified.
I would be interested to hear Brian Lamb's response to these questions.
By the way, you are within your rights to begin the statementing process yourselves. I think there is some guidance about this elsewhere on the forum.
Asteroids Sara - Community Champion
Posted by
Elena Goodrum
on 10th March 2010
at 12:38
Hello, Maria & Sarah - welcome to the group! Glad you shared your thoughts, and don't worry - we love rambling, and we love to rant about things! : )
Posted by
Josie Barnshaw
on 10th March 2010
at 12:52
Hi John
Welcome to the group. Hope we hear more from you in the other discussions.
Josie - Community Champion
Posted by
Josie Barnshaw
on 10th March 2010
at 12:53
Oops sorry, missed Maria and Sarah's arrival. Welcome to the group girls. Look forward to hearing more from you both.
Josie - Community Champion
Posted by
bumblebee
on 10th March 2010
at 13:48
I have a question....
At my daughter's SEN tribunal, the Tribunal judge questioned if Cognitive Behaviour Therapy is something that education should be asked to provide in school.
My daughter has Asperger Syndrome but does not need direct speech therapy or occupational therapy, however my other 2 children (who also have ASD) do and have these provisions written into their statements, they are both provided at school and they are also both health provisions.
What my daughter needs is Cognitive Behavioural Therapy in order to access parts of school life and this is her greatest area of need (social emotional). She needs this to be situation specific in order for it to be effective but the judge seems happy for anyone to provide this 'type' of approach in school......
Are there any strict regulations and rules on health provisions being delivered in school? Can we expect all of our children's SEN needs to be delivered within the school?
Claire - Community Champion
Posted by
damo73
on 10th March 2010
at 17:03
Hello all,
I find the posts by Sarah and Maria as quite indicative of how far we are yet to travel in raising awareness and gaining support for children placed in mainstream schools. I had a similar problem as an adult seeking an assessment - the first GP I visited said 'you obviously have an IQ above 70 and wouldn't qualify as having a learning disability' etc.! Seeing as last time my IQ was measured, I got a score of 160 + I got 4 C's, 3 D's and an F at GCSE many years ago - shows that I was academically very able in some areas, yet struggled in many other ways with academic work and how it was presented to me/the school environment. I never showed my working out in Maths and was assumed to be cheating! I didn't write more than a paragraph until I was 17 (and in college), when now I struggle to meet word limits for having too much to say. Too many 'high-functioning' children are assumed to be 'doing well', when actually they are doing far worse then they could be doing + thus not meeting their potential academically (not to mention the social problems mentioned by Sara).
Claire - I've never been a fan of Cognitive and Behavioural psychology based upon a scientific model more akin to studying inanimate objects and processes (although I'm currently studying a module in it with the OU!). I think that discursive and phenomenological psychology has much to offer, yet is never really mentioned in the same breath as autism (something my own research will be looking into). Having said that, in some cases it can be helpful, if delivered by a skilled practitioner. I would say that it is most useful in helping co-morbidity when things have already failed a child. I think that many 'challenging behaviours' are the consequence of professionals already doing a poor job of supporting ASC children / difficulties with a societal/cultural expectations and so on. The suggestion that this 'type' of approach can be delivered by untrained practitioners is scary in the extreme and shows that the judge doesn't know the difference between his nose and his...
On a more positive note, I have been asked by my PhD supervisor to review a book for a journal (to be published!) + will be presenting at a conference in a few months time. It seems my work is being very well appreciated at the Uni of Birmingham + I am receiving very positive feedback + making some excellent contacts. Compare this to how school teachers viewed me:
"Damian has not put much effort into his work this term and despite encouragement, cajolling, threats and eventual punishment, nothing has seemed to get through to him. He seems to lack drive or any will to improve. A drastic revision of his working habits needs to occur quickly."
"It does not appear that he is very bright and therefore lack of effort compounds the problem."
Nuff said!
Damian
Posted by
Elena Goodrum
on 11th March 2010
at 09:29
Looking forward to this! Not much longer now...
Posted by
Jenny Phillips
on 11th March 2010
at 11:10
Hi everyone
Well, the event has just finished so thanks to everyone who contributed. A full transcript can be found on this page: http://www.treehouse.org.uk/talk-autism/live-chat-brian-lamb/11-03-10
Jenny Phillips
Training and Events Coordinator
TreeHouse
Posted by
damo73
on 11th March 2010
at 11:22
Hello all,
I understand the position that Brian Lamb is in, yet I felt somewhat underwhelmed by the experience. There seems to be little room for the voice of people with SEN being sought, and the transfer of FE provision to LA's seems very 'up in the air' at the moment. I am glad that SKILL are looking into it, yet they seem to be a charity with little 'teeth' to make a difference. The DSA can be helpful, yet not in the type of provision + structure of FE insitutions (lack of a continuum of provision).
My main remaining questions to be answered are:
How will the continuum of provision between mainstream and specialist schooling (and FE) be improved?
How will ITT + CPD training be improved + involve the voices of parents and people with SEN?
I hope I do get a private response etc...
Damian
Posted by
bumblebee
on 11th March 2010
at 16:39
Hi All,
Thanks for asking my questions in my absence and I'm glad to see there were some other pretty tough ones posed to Mr Lamb! Fingers crossed that he is fed up of hearing the same complaints again and again!!!! There may be a few points that he could see as vote winners so hopefully that may be a good enough reason to implement them or at least keep pushing for them.....
Claire - Community Champion