Meltdowns - Aggression/Violence
Posted by
Leanne
on 1st November 2009
at 13:27
Hi
Can I ask how old Oliver is ??
I have a 14yr old with Aspergers who refuses to accept responsibilty for anything and he says he finds it physically difficult to say sorry... this i dont believe because he has said sorry- unprompted and in context.
With my son it is more to do with if he says sorry then he has to accept that he did something wrong which would mean it was in his control, and if its in his control then with work he can chnge it.If it is constantly everyone elses fault then he doesnt have to do anything.
We also get dragged into really really long conversations.. I know he is waiting for us to back down.He only came to live with me when he was 10/11 and I know his mother would back down to him.
To avoid these really long conversations we get him to write down exactly what happened and why it isnt his fault... and then take it from there, because its written down its harder for him to wriggle out.
I would say that no matter how hard it is for you, you really really musnt back down..I think its a control/power struggle and as soon as he sees you mean business it will be easier.
The reason i say this is that I also have an 8 yr old and his behaviour is better because we got all this sorted when he was 5 ... much easier to control a 5yr old than a 10yr old.
With Alistair I had the same meltdowns and I wrapped him in a blanket to stop him attacking me- when he calmed down we did timeout etc ... I cannot tell you how much he hated this BUT he has never hit /kicked scratched me... it was a turning point for him and he knew I was in control. He has never had an issue saying sorry.Unfortunately because his brother was older this was never an option.So we have a whole different set of issues with him.
I would say though that Johnathon has never attempted to attack me.... I know that he knows I am not scared of him and again thats half the battle. Sounds terrible I know.
When he lived with his mum he would trash his room out of frustration..not done that with me.When I asked him why he said that he knows I would be really angry and it was not an option.. demonstrating that it is with in his control.
Regarding the self harming...Johnathon has never done this well not physically anyway.(I think he emotionally harms himself)Alistair has attempted it. He will hit himself/ pinch himself/kick himself - when he started it I said' yes thats fine' and looked away. He has never hurt himself and has never hurt me... he has threatened though!!
I had problems in school because they gave him attention for doing it... they refused to ignore it.I understand why.So it escalated- he did move on to hurting other children to get his own way.I then had to discipline him from home for doing it ... what joy!!He also would hurt his TA - he hurt the one that was nicest to him.
It showed me that he can control it and that if he is rewarded for doing it then he will continue.
One thing that is very different to discipling autistic children is that you can not use the... dont do that mummy will be sad / or do it to make mummy happy etc.. which works for typical children.They are very self driven and selfmotivated - which is why Alistair responds so well- he knows it is not in his interest to upset me.
I did recently get the advice from a clinical psycologist because it concerns me that Alistair does get frustrated really quickly but she has assured me that when his speech improves further his frustration levels should diminsh.
I sound like a real dragon !!
Its a very complex subject and it would take an age to explain all of the problems we have encountered and techniques we have used but am more than happy to chat further :)
Leanne - Community Champion
Posted by
Josie Barnshaw
on 1st November 2009
at 16:31
Hi Claire
I have a 14 year old with Aspergers who has a similar disposition to your son. What might help is an Anger Management course. My son has had two of these; one when he was 6 or 7 (about a year before he was diagnosed) and another when he was 11 or 12. These did seem to help cut down the frequency of the outbursts although they have become more extreme as he has gotten older. I have to say, though, that Tom restricts these outbursts to the home and there has never been an occasion when they have occurred either in school or anywhere other than the home. This is apparently quite common much along the lines that Leanne has said, they know how far they can push us whereas they are not familiar enough with those outside the home and this does intimate a degree of control that they must have over these outbursts.
I would suggest going to your GP and asking to be referred to a Child Psychologist for assessment to see if there are any therapies available for Oliver. Another thought is that our local CAMHS Clinic carried out a view courses which involved both child and parent (in different classes) where the children worked in a group and were shown some techniques for recognising the early signs of "meltdowns" and how to manage them and while this was going on a "Parenting Class" was taking place elsewhere, where we were given tips on operating time-outs, reward systems, chore charts, social stories, picture board do's and donts and included was a relaxation element for parents to de-stress when pushed too far. It might be worth seeing if they run something like this in your area.
Josie - Community Champion
Posted by
NickyB
on 1st November 2009
at 16:38
Hi Claire
If Stuart hurts anyone at school, his name goes on the warning board. 3 warnings and they send him home, which he really hates as I don't let him have any toys or treats or watch telly for the rest of that day. He's been sent home a couple of times, but he is now learning how to stop himself before it gets to the 3 warning stage. They also have a 'smiley' board which his name goes on if he's done something good, and that's really helping him to understand the virtues of good behaviour.
At home, we try to adopt the same tactics. If he hurts someone, he gets a warning and 3 warnings means the 'naughty step'. If it carries on after that, he loses a favourite toy. We try to keep it simple and not get into drawn out conversations.
It's really hard as it can sometimes seem that the whole day if filled with conflict, but I believe that consistency is very important and you have to stick at it. As Leanne says, it is a power game, so it can often get worse before it improves.
I too have had endless conversations with Stuart about saying sorry. He hit a girl in the playground once and refused to say sorry. I had a chat with her mum about his condition and she was actually really understanding. Wouldn't it be lovely if everyone was like that :). Again I think it's a question of keeping at it - I'll let you know if we ever get there!!!
Hope things improve for you soon. Take care.
Nicky - Community Champion
Posted by
bumblebee
on 1st November 2009
at 17:17
Hi there,
You are absolutely right to ask for help before he gets much older and I agree with Josie about an anger management course, or at least something that will help him identify and begin to modulate his emotions. Social services may also be a good place to look for support as their disabled children's teams should have lots of expierience with this type of behaviour. The only advice I can suggest is to try hard to keep your emotions out of the picture when he begins to meltdown. You need to stay objective and calm and be very firm in what you expect him to do using very specific language, but keeping it short and sweet and try not to get involved in a conversation about what you expect him to do.....He needs to be reminded all the time that you are the parent and you make the rules....sounds tough, but it really works.
As with all children if you change your parenting method his behaviour will probably get worse before it gets better, but it will get better and you will end up in control....I promise! My 14 yr old daughter tries to control everyone and everything and if I knew what I know now when she was younger I would definately have tackled her contoling and aggressive behaviour as young as possible. I believe her behaviour was screaming out her need to be controlled and reigned in because she was struggling so much with her life outside the home.....This way of parenting is real tough love and one thing we can never do is think things are so much better, lets ease off a bit!! All that happened was it all started up again.....We always tell her how much we love her and we will always be here for her, but her behaviour is unacceptable ....we have also appealed to her intellect and logic by speaking to a local police officer who agreed to tell her the laws and consequences around aggression etc....It worked......One final point, he will need something else to do instead....ie....You may not hit mum ever, but you can hit this punch bag/pillow etc if you have to hit something....You can do this with biting/pushing/shouting etc...Hope this helps and please keep in touch :0)
Claire - Community Champion
Posted by
Leanne
on 1st November 2009
at 17:26
Hi
I was only talking the other day about how hard it is being consistant.Really really hard !!
With my 2 so called typical children I would have said that I was consisitant but parenting autistic children shows me just how inconsistant I have been in the past.
I have found just one lapse can result in starting at square one and it truly is so hard remaining consistent no matter what.
I think the reason Alistair says sorry so readily is that he has realised that it is a pre curser to him resuming his activities.. therefore being a positive for him. As he is only just beginning to talk he does not make the connection between the word sorry and accepting ownership of the issue.(at 8 I think its a tall order non verbal or not !!)Iam hoping that because he is used to saying sorry now that it will continue.
I know that just saying the word is not really the point - there should be meaning behind it - but lets face it .. there are plenty of typical people who just say sorry and have no meaning behind it at all.
Leanne - Community Champion
Posted by
almoot
on 15th November 2009
at 21:40
Hello
I have just read this set of conversations. Our eight year old seems to share simularities with all of the above. He refuses to accept he is ever wrong or to blame. However when he has calmed down later he has started to say that he didn't mean to do it and don't I know he has problems. I am anxious that he does not start using his difficulties as an excuse. Most of our meltdowns are either a result of something that has happened in the school day (but he is unable/unwilling to meltdown at school), something his younger brother or sister has done, or purely and simply us just asking him to do something.
Our headteacher has mentiond Oppositional Defiance Disorder as part of his ASD tendencies (we have not had an official diagnosis yet). But this seems to fit at least some of the problems we have. He just seems to dig his feet in and when I do not give in , he starts to lash out and scream as if we are killing him. I try my best to keep calm and rational and to walk away. However he then baits me by saying "that's it go away, you all hate me" etc. I think he knows that we find this terribly hard to iqnore. The last thing I want him to think is that.
We to have tried to take things away, but the only thing that ever has any affect is taking away is computer time. Rewards come in the form of time frames on the computer. This does not give us perfect results. I do so often feel like I am fighting a losing battle that I am never going to win. So reading the above is definately comforting.
Hannah
Posted by
bumblebee
on 16th November 2009
at 15:13
Hi Hannah,
My first thought when I read your post was about your son's perception of what has happened. If he doesn't 'read' the situation in the same way as other people, he may truly not understand what he has done wrong and be careful with the 'I'm sorry' line!!! Lots of our kids use this because they know full well we will either go away or not go on about it anymore meaning they can move on.....doesn't always mean they understand what they have done, the consequesces of their actions or how to stop a similar situation happening again!!!
As for ODD, that is basically a part of Autism stemming from our children being so self-directed. If it gets to the stage they do the opposite of everything you ask them to do, I'd look very closely at what the child gets out of behaving like that....ie seeing you upset, getting negative reactions etc.....it can work as a re-inforcer and make the behaviour deep rooted and very hard to shift......I'd absolutely ignore it if you can or if you can't put him in time out so he is getting no attention positive or negative......Try and switch off your emotional responses as much as is humanly possible (I know this is really tough but it really does work)......I'd also switch the way you deal with things by taking the power out of situations.....EG. When my daughter said she was leaving home because she hated us and we were parents from hell (really she did!), I said very calmly....''ok, sweetheart, I love you, think about taking your coat though because it gets very cold outside at night time''. She sat on the doorstep and worked out that she didn't have anywhere to go!! I didn't get angry and she learnt lots of lessons all on her own!!
You can also try what I do with my son....when I am not in the mood for playing his games of power! I just reverse the request from ''sit in that chair'' to ''do not sit in that chair''.....works every time! He thinks he is being clever, but I avoid a fight that I cannot cope with and get him doing exactly what I want him to do!!
Hope this helps a bit :0)
Claire - Community Champion
Posted by
Leanne
on 16th November 2009
at 22:15
Hi Hannah
My step son Alistair is also 8.We also have had lots of fun and games re meltdowns :)
It is hard coping with the meltdowns and consistant parenting is beyond difficult but it will pay dividends in the future.
The fact that you have already got a punishment strategy in place that is working is fab.. Walking away from difficult situations is definately the best thing to do and its something that took me a while to grasp.
Take care and it would be lovely to hear more from you :)
Leanne - Community Champion
Posted by
almoot
on 17th November 2009
at 13:44
Hi Claire and Leanne,
Thank you so much for your emails. I am still so new to all this. It is so comforting to read the simularities between Peter and other children. It is also good to know that we are not the only ones who struggle sometimes. It has seemed such an up hill battle to get any where. No we seem to be heading in the direction of a diagnosis, everything seems to make so much more sense. This website aswell has been brilliant. Our Child pysch has suggested comic strip stories to try and get him to understand the situations that cause meltdowns and to help him see what he is doing wrong. We are picking up the info on Monday. So I shall let you know what happens with it.
Thanks again
Hannah
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Posted by
LittleMissSunshine
on 1st November 2009
at 02:06
Hi All
I'm after some help - Oliver has started to become very aggressive towards me when I try to discipline him or when he's tired/generally grouchy.
Twice now he's hit me, punched me, kicked, pinched, scratched etc, Today i tried to put him on naughty step for threatening to kick me. He refused to go so i warned him that if he didn't go on his own then i'd have to carry him. I have him several chances but then ended up carrying him kicking and screaming to the step! This is when he was pinching, scratching etc. Anyway his dad had to intervene as i'd lost the plot (he really really hurt me) and ended up in tears. It then took us 2 hours to calm him down and get him to say sorry. Which brings me to the second part of the issue.
Oliver refuses to apologise - he uses every excuse in the book and then gets into a circular argument to explain how nothing was his fault and he shouldn't apologise. He then says he's too embarrassed to apologise and so we go on. Having the same discussion for hours with him refusing to budge. Which causes problems with other parents as they want an apology.
I have to say that I find disciplining him very very stressful as it takes so long and i often end up giving up (not good long term). I know that he finds things difficult and that he needs to get his anger out put I am concerned that if he hit a child with the same force as he hit me then he'd cause real damage.
My other concern is that when he gets angry if he can't hit someone else he often hits himself or gouges his eyes which obviously I don't want - as longterm the idea of self harming is more scary than the thought of him hitting me (the lesser of two evils!!).
So i suppose I wondered if anyone had any ideas on anger management techniques and children with Asperger's as i'm presuming that they would be different from general anger man techniques.
Any hints or tips on strategies to adopt longterm - i appreciate that it might not be easy but know that we have to get this sorted before it gets out of hand.
cheers
claire