Clara Claiborne Park obituary

Hello Elena,

Yes - I was aware of her + she was a good campaigner from what I know of her.  It is interesting as Dr. Ivor Lovaas died recently too - he isn't being remembered quite so fondly by everyone though.  The two deaths have sparked off some good discussions about the social etiquette of speaking ill or not of the dead etc. (a social rule that seems quite illogical to many on the spectrum it seems - including myself).

Damian - Community Champion

Hello Elena,

I have often come into problems with social etiquette - I tend to look at things logically and quite often social etiquette doesn't seem to make logical sense.  It seems some others I have spoken too on the spectrum have a similar issue.

Some examples - eating with one's mouth shut (makes logical sense - eating with mouth open risks food falling out and is a bit unsightly and noisy) // Not putting elbows on table at dinner (makes logical sense if someone is close to you at the table - yet not otherwise - is it really that unsightly to people + if so - why?).

When it comes to the issue of speaking ill of the dead - many on the spectrum cannot figure why people suddenly have a collective amnesia of all the bad things people had done before they had died - when evaluating their contribution to society etc. - many I have spoken too have got into trouble at funerals for saying something honest about a person, that they would have been able to say a few days earlier (personally, at such things I tend not to say much at all).  If you were more than willing to speak ill of someone when they were alive - why not when they are dead?  The classic answer is that: 'they are not hear to answer you back' - this is illogical though as many wouldn't have answered you and your queries when they were alive (and thus death doesn't change the fact that they had never engaged with you in the first place etc.).  The only exceptions seem to be those depicted as extreme monsters (and the reverse is often true - that only the negative is then remembered) - e.g. Hitler etc. - even in this case there are strange people who wish to forget his negative actions.

Social etiquette is sold as easing social interactions and framing norms etc. - all too often to me, it comes across as mad traditionalism, adherence to conformity in the face of all logical explanation and reasoning, playing power games of cultural capital and is ultimately classist etc. - and it often segregates people rather than integrates them.

An interesting case is saying 'please' and 'thankyou' - I can see some sense to such words (although very 'fluffy') - problem is - many societies have no equivalent word - this is not to say they lack social etiquette of their own though - then when in Britian and they forget to say these words or do not see the need for them to please others - they are often viewed as rude (which then leads to more confusion).  It is all made worse by the 'natural attitude' (although there are good reasons for the existence of this - it causes all kinds of problems - see other posts + Harold Garfinkel etc.).

Damian - Community Champion

I can see what you mean about grieving - yet the effect of 'collective amnesia' also shows up in the media and from the public - I think a major turning point in Britain was the death of Princess Diana, before this event, collective grieving and promoting positives didn't seem to happen to such an extent.  I do not see much point in grieving for someone who had no real connection to you - all part of the fragmented post-modern experience I guess (although America probably did it first with Elvis) - I guess they are grieving a symbol of their collective cultural consciousness - although I don't tend to read such symbols in quite the same way.

The words 'sir' and 'ma'am' would have originated in Britain (or at least Europe I think) and yet seem to have died out as customs.  I was treated in this way by a cashier in a railway station cafe the other week - I found it to be a nice surprise.  The difference was - he meant it and genuinely respected others.  Words can be meaningless (or deliberately obtrusive) without genuine intent.

Damian - Community Champion

Yes it was nice, makes the day a bit better when things like that happen.

Damian - Community Champion